Derisive diatribes about the state of the nation, nation states and swerving leftward
29 March 2008
Constant wind energy
Steamus Garvey has been given money for a pilot project that will store wind energy under the sea as compressed air. What a great idea? This would get rid of a major problem with wind--the fickleness of the weather.
There are several big wind farms going up not far from Appleton, and I've wondered about the same thing: one can't rely on wind to supply all our power when the power needs are more or less constant but the wind is not. So, how to store it?
One other option I've heard of is to use the electricity generated to pump millions of gallons into gigantic, above-ground reservoirs, and then use that water and gravity to generate power on low-wind days.
That sounds like it would work. There should be more money invested in this line of research. The day we get wind to work we have energy forever. I wonder how long a generation of windmills last. Wouldn't it be worth it to spend trillions on the investment--even with current technology--so that we could take care of a more solid percentage of demand?
Studies indicate that wind can provide 15% to 20% of a utility system's electricity without the need for added storage, and the extra cost of handling it is half a cent per kilowatt-hour or less (which in turn means that storage has to be cheaper than that to make economic sense). So, right now we are focused on getting from 1% of U.S. supply to 20%, which will be a massive achievement and take decades. Transmission is a considerably more urgent need than storage.
Question for Mr. Gray, Please. Who did the study? How did they do it? Were the best methods used? Can't understand what the study means 'til those questions are answered. I love wind power and would love to see whirlygigs every where each adding its mite of juice and color. So my questions really lead to what are the limitations? Are there any theoretical work arounds? Thanks! --ml
There have been a series of studies performed for major utilities in the U.S. by power systems consulting firms. The best source for this information is the Utility Wind Integration Group (UWIG) site at http://www.uwig.org.
Summaries have been posted in a number of places. Here's one.
The limitations to use of wind aren't technical, but economic. You can power everything with wind and storage if you're willing to spend enough money--the cost curve has a "hockey stick" shape, rising slowly until you get to somewhere between 15% and 30% of the electricity supply on a utility system and then going up sharply beyond that point.
Hmmm, sorry, as I think about it, that is a pretty dispassionate response. Don't get me wrong, I am a fanatical believer in wind power. The problem is that discussion about energy storage is in some ways a distraction at present--we can use a lot more wind power in the U.S. without needing to build more storage facilities, and so storage is sort of a red herring.
You're welcome. I'm sorry to say, it's pretty technical. Be sure to take a look at the UWIG site--some of the material there is almost intelligible to normal humans (like me).
Mr. Gray: Thank you for responding to my question so fully. Far from dispassionate, yours was the detailed response I was looking for. Thanks to Karlo for grasping that my intent was to elucidate. --ml
9 comments:
There are several big wind farms going up not far from Appleton, and I've wondered about the same thing: one can't rely on wind to supply all our power when the power needs are more or less constant but the wind is not. So, how to store it?
One other option I've heard of is to use the electricity generated to pump millions of gallons into gigantic, above-ground reservoirs, and then use that water and gravity to generate power on low-wind days.
That sounds like it would work. There should be more money invested in this line of research. The day we get wind to work we have energy forever. I wonder how long a generation of windmills last. Wouldn't it be worth it to spend trillions on the investment--even with current technology--so that we could take care of a more solid percentage of demand?
Studies indicate that wind can provide 15% to 20% of a utility system's electricity without the need for added storage, and the extra cost of handling it is half a cent per kilowatt-hour or less (which in turn means that storage has to be cheaper than that to make economic sense). So, right now we are focused on getting from 1% of U.S. supply to 20%, which will be a massive achievement and take decades. Transmission is a considerably more urgent need than storage.
Regards,
Thomas O. Gray
American Wind Energy Association
www.powerofwind.org
www.awea.org
Question for Mr. Gray, Please. Who did the study? How did they do it? Were the best methods used?
Can't understand what the study means 'til those questions are answered.
I love wind power and would love to see whirlygigs every where each adding its mite of juice and color. So my questions really lead to what are the limitations? Are there any theoretical work arounds?
Thanks!
--ml
There have been a series of studies performed for major utilities in the U.S. by power systems consulting firms. The best source for this information is the Utility Wind Integration Group (UWIG) site at http://www.uwig.org.
Summaries have been posted in a number of places. Here's one.
The limitations to use of wind aren't technical, but economic. You can power everything with wind and storage if you're willing to spend enough money--the cost curve has a "hockey stick" shape, rising slowly until you get to somewhere between 15% and 30% of the electricity supply on a utility system and then going up sharply beyond that point.
Regards,
Thomas O. Gray
American Wind Energy Association
www.powerofwind.org
www.awea.org
Hmmm, sorry, as I think about it, that is a pretty dispassionate response. Don't get me wrong, I am a fanatical believer in wind power. The problem is that discussion about energy storage is in some ways a distraction at present--we can use a lot more wind power in the U.S. without needing to build more storage facilities, and so storage is sort of a red herring.
Thanks for the information, Tom! I'll definitely read the summary that you suggested.
You're welcome. I'm sorry to say, it's pretty technical. Be sure to take a look at the UWIG site--some of the material there is almost intelligible to normal humans (like me).
Regards,
Thomas O. Gray
American Wind Energy Association
www.powerofwind.org
www.awea.org
Mr. Gray:
Thank you for responding to my question so fully.
Far from dispassionate, yours was the detailed response I was looking for.
Thanks to Karlo for grasping that my intent was to elucidate.
--ml
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