4 August 2005

Religion and science: Making the twain meet

A couple days ago, I wrote a post on where I lampoon the anti-evolution position by advocating a return to teaching tradition-based science in the form of Cherokee cosmology. I've remained open to even the smallest inkling of logic within the argument, but must conclude that most of its advocates are arguing in bad faith. There is something to be said for those who openly declare that they believe what they believe come hell or high water and thus want to set up a separate school system. But advocates of this hardline position seem unable to accept the full implications of what they're saying. A rejection of science is not a decision for the timid. We're talking about some Talibanesque implications: rejecting gravity, electricity and other theories as well.

Much ado has been made about the word "theory." But when scientists say that evolution or relativity are theories, the word theory doesn't necessarily imply the caveat of "wild conjecture" or "the current guess about something we know nothing about." There are areas where scientific exploration is new and the observations and experiments required to confirm or disprove the theory are currently impossible. (A good example is String Theory.) But evolution is definitely not in this category.

I suppose if we choose to do so, we can simply set up two systems of learning: one scientific and one pre-scientific--although the systems actually go together like oil and water. In this sense, I found the following comic particularly poignant.


Among Creationists (and those on the right in general), one frequent mode of attack is to mount a fierce battle against an old discredited theory when a field of science was in its infancy. Thus we have the spectacle of the blog Teleological attacking Lamarck as one of the two pillars of evolutionary science! This blogger needs to stop using their grandpa's biology textbook. Sell it on eBay--it's a collector's item! I'm sure that somewhere in notebooks, he forgot to dot an "i" or something and (not to mention ) is not always perfect. But this is hardly reason to conflate the two approaches to knowledge. Science isn't another faith; nor is religion a "science." As Ken Wilber points out, science and religion have their proper spheres of knowledge and authority and there's no need to confuse the two.

A recent WaPo article (via Stranger Fruit) puts the debate in perspective:

Of course the president is right that, in the context of a philosophical debate, it would be appropriate to discuss both sides of an issue before arriving at a conclusion. In the context of a religious discussion, it would also be very interesting to ponder whether the human race exists on Earth for a purpose or merely by accident. But the proponents of intelligent design are not content with participating in a philosophical or religious debate. They want their theory to be accepted as science and to be taught in ninth-grade biology classes, alongside the theory of evolution. For that, there is no basis whatsoever: The nature of the “evidence” for the theory of evolution is so overwhelming, and so powerful, that it informs all of modern biology. To pretend that the existence of evolution is somehow still an open question, or that it is one of several equally valid theories, is to misunderstand the intellectual and scientific history of the past century.

I think devout followers of all religions need to accept that scientists will never again scurry to Rome to ask the Pope (or some fundamentalist minister) to provide their writings with an imprimatur. The marriage of our scientific and religious modes of knowing will only come after a long courtship in which the two come to know each other and determine proper spheres of authority. A good starting point is to simply admit that something's amiss, the times are a'changing, and we might have to struggle spiritually and intellectually to attain a higher synthesis. I think this following excerpt, from a post by Magic Seeker, exemplifies this attitude:

Either you believe that God designed the universe or you don't. Well, it really is a lot more complicated than that. I am having a major battle in my mind about this. I, from the bottom of my heart believe in a higher power. I feel God like I feel happiness, sadness or love. Those things are real to me, so God is real to me.

On the other hand, I am a firm subscriber to the scientific method. As imperfect as it is, it is the best tool we have for understanding the universe and progressing human achievement for the betterment of mankind.

So, how does one rectify these seemingly opposing views? This goes back to my search for real magic. I am hoping science will prove the existence of God just by doing their thing. I am thinking that this will never happen and I will be doomed to reading endless arguments back and forth.

The scientists do have an advantage. They are not trying to do anything but understand the universe while the ID folks have specific idea they have to prove.

9 comments:

Mary said...

Perhaps it will backfire (stay with me here) when the next generation believes that atoms, cells, etc. have a unique consciousness of their own interdependant on the whole of creation, continually striving for perfection by achieving total conscious unity with the whole of all unique parts of consciousness connected to the whole...huh?...
lol...
M#

Ole Blue The Heretic said...

I do not belive that the ID group will get very far. Already people are grumbeling about the Bush administrations policies, and the social conservatives are shooting themselevs in the foot.

People are starting to wake up in this country, it takes a while but it is happening. Most people might attend church only during holidays. People will become fed up with the fundamentalist of all strips soon.

Gleyes said...

Karlo - The bottom line in this debate is really very simple - no one knows for sure. Every "theory" is, by definition, just that - a theory. A "theory", by definition, has as its underlying premise, conjecture, because, no one knows for sure. So, all we know from all the theories is that - no one knows for sure. That means that any one theory could be the correct one. Therefore, it is difficult to truly discredit one theory in favor of another. And, since my mind does not have the capacity for infinite knowledge, the best I can do is - you guessed it - guess......Folks give themselves entirely too much credit for being smarter than they are. This debate is between a bunch of puffed up psuedo-scientists arguing with a bunch of bone-headed fundamentalists. Both sides look ridiculous in a debate neither will ever win because - no one knows for sure. Gee, do you think no one knows for sure? So why do both sides keep trying to prove they do??

Karlo said...

Are you using the word "sure" in some special technical sense that it doesn't normally have? I'm "sure" that the sun will rise tomorrow and I'm "sure" that I experience the computer screen in front of me. If I can't be "sure" about anything since "everything's a theory," does the word "sure" have meaning any more? I'm sure it doesn't. As for "theories," those that have withstood critical scrutiny aren't "conjecture" or "guesses." Many of the key theories of science (e.g., relativity and so on) have been proven beyond all doubt by numerous experiments. If we're wrong about such fundamental assumptions, we're destined to find ourselves back in a state of Cartesian skepticism, wondering whether a demon controls our every thought. Don't get me wrong. I don't think that scientific knowledge precludes the possibility of reality containing wondrous hidden aspects that we're completely unaware of. As Chomsky suggests in some of his writings, there might even be outward limits to what human beings can know due to the structure of human consciousness and thought. There also might be theoretical possibilities (e.g., multiverse theory, creationism, and so on) that are inherently untestable. But within this game of human thought, we can be very certain of which way the pieces move.

Bob said...

Science examines the universe in a precise and well defined way. It is based on the scientific method. You make a hypothesis, you test the hypothesis and then draw your conculsions concerning the validity of your hypothesis. All tests of the hypothesis have to be repeatable by others.

Science can only observe and predict actions within the natural world. Anything supernatural (if it exists) cannot be put to the test via the scientific method.

For example, I can predict that when I throw a ball from a certain heigth with a certain force and in a certain direction, it will have a particular trajectory. I know where the ball will land before I throw it. No I go ahead and throw the ball. It lands in the predicted spot. I repeat the experiment and get the same result each time.

Let's image that one time I throw the ball just as I had before, but it goes in the oposite direction. This was not predicted and cannot be repeated by myself or anyone else. It does not mean it did not happen, only that science cannot dectect it. To science this case fails the scientific method and is not recognized by science.

Anything that is a miracle, like the ball disobeying the laws of physics, is outside the realm of science.

Now ID cannot be proven scientifically since the event occured once and cannot be repeated. One the other hand we have micro-evolution (variation of species) that has been observed and repeated under scientific rigor. Macro-evolution (one species devoloping into a new species) has not been observed, let alone repeated. The ascent of man from another primate happened once and has not neither been duplicated nor observed in the wild. It is a one time event that cannot be proven by the scientific method, in otherwords the evolution of man from ape is a miracle (and therfore not recognized by science?).

Sure we use the scientific method to verify a point here and there. Then we look at this information and make an educated conclusion that evolution is the answer. Of course some ID'ers also use the scientific method to draw different conclusions. It is like a case at trial. Hard evidence is provided so that we can conclude guilt or innocence, but the deed for what the person has done may not be directly detected by science and may not be repeateble, as in the case of murdering a particular person.

So then scientific truth can be seen and found. Take for instance the laws of physics. But this may not be the complete truth, since science cannot test the supernatural. If it exists, supernatural truth must be obtained by other means.

Karlo said...

You're exactly right. If miracles or the supernatural exist, then science, reason, cause and effect and the whole ball-o-wax is out the window. There is a choice to be made here. You either believe the universe somehow makes sense or that it doesn't. In a supernatural universe, you never know what will happen. Anything could be the case. An evil demon could have brought you into existence a second ago with your current set of memories. HOWEVER, most people believe that the universe makes sense, that stones fly because we throw them, and so on. The alternative to scientific knowledge isn't "knowledge" per se since in a supernatural world we can never be sure of anything. In such a world guess and conjecture (being based on nothing substantial) is a ridiculous enterprise.

Gleyes said...

Exactly, Karlo. Life is like that.....we can't know or measure everything. Some things will remain a mystery, both before and after they happen.......

Gleyes said...

And that doesn't necessarily render everything "ridiculous".

Karlo said...

Certainly some things are almost undoubtedly unknowable, and some things are only knowable via intuition. The problem is in positing an Alice-in-Wonderland universe in which nothing at all makes sense. If there's a supernatural realm that follows no laws whatsoever (which must be the case if there's an omnipotent deity), we've entered a realm where argument, reason, science, knowledge, and narrative becomes hollow. If light bulbs only light up when the deity says "Fiat lux," we've lost the need for a theory of electromagnetic energy.